and here's the best part -- you still own your home. take control of your retirement today. ♪ ♪ >>shepard: 12 seconds left. the dow today, they were all excited when they thought the government was baying up bonds and they realized it was no big deal so it is flat. (chanting). >> the battle for the future of the labor movement, michigan, a union stronghold, the birth inflation of the united autoworkers union, but transformed to the nation's 24th right-to-work state,

limiting union power and the guy the unions call a "rat" the michigan governor is here. now. >> welcome, big news, i am neil cavuto, 24 hours after governor snyder signed the right-to-work legislation into law, sparking all of the angry protests, it looks like the battle is just going. leave us alone. or we are coming for you. we are done. >>neil: some unions are out for a lot more than their point of view be but for blood and they are not holding back. and neither are state lawmakers. >> we are going to pass something that will undo 100 years of labor relations.

there will be blood. >>neil: everyone should cool that. but is the governor worried about what he unlived? the michigan governor snyder with me now. are you surprised by this, governor? >>guest: it is good to be with you. i knew this is a divisive issue with a lot of protests before we started considering the bills. this is the right thing to do. it is actually is being pro worker, they have a right to choice and shouldn't they have the choice depending on whether their pay dues? this brings jobs to michigan and we need the jobs. we have a great come back. more and better jobs is good for workers and, actually, good for unions. >>neil: the union guys come back and say, so, the non-union members who you would force

among us benefit from contracts we negotiate and, ultimately, sign. what do you say? >>guest: these are good heart working people. if they see value in a union they will join. hard working people do not take advantage of other people. if you look at it and they don't see value, i don't see why they shut have to put dollar resources to that much the unions need to put value proposition together if a way that appeals to workers to make it exciting to them to want to contribute. doesn't that make sense? >>neil: some are calling for a recall election. they want to throw you out. does scott walker ring a bell? >>guest: they had several recall efforts last year. we you reinvent a state, people have difficulty with change. this change is good. this is about moving michigan failure, not living in the past but building a future based on

more and better jobs and a bright future. >> do you think now, though, the difference between your situation and scat walker's position, we have had a presidential election and a larger election, that has embolden unions who can rightly say, they certainly galvanized the base and brought out the union base for the president and helped put the president over the finish like in the big influential way. so, they are more empowered than with scott walker and more likely to stick the fight to you. what do you think? >>guest: well, to argue this case is easier. it is not about collective bargaining. ohio and wisconsin were collective bargaining. this is freedom to choose, the relationship between a union and a worker, very much being pro worker, essentially saying, shouldn't a worker have the ability do choose to contribute dollar resources or not based on deemed value? this is straightforward.

it is important to stand up for workers' right. >> what do you make of president obama coming to your state and clearly disagreed with what you said? this is the president a couple of days ago. >> the so-called right-to-work laws do not have to do with economics by have to do with politics. they are really talking about giving you the right-to-work for less money. >>neil: what do you think of that? >>guest: well, two things. the last comment about working for less money is about collective bargaining, and that is not the issue. the second piece, in terms of looking at the worker side, this is pro worker, stepping up not about politics but stepping up to say, isn't it only fair that workers should only have to put up their hard earned dollars to something they see value for and if the value doesn't exist, they shouldn't is to contribute. again, that burden should really be on the union side to put together a value proposition that is exciting, worthwhile, and hopefully they can convince

workers to say it is great to be part of the organization and people want to join and if they did they would on the same place they are at today. >>neil: we will watch closely, governor, thank you very much. great to be but. >>neil: tonight at 8:00 p.m. on fox business network we have a special for you. it doesn't get anymore bless an, the guy at the receiving end of this language and, later, these punches. he will be my guest on fox business network. he lies out the business tonight. >>neil: racing nowhere face against the clock. >> we are committed to staying here. we will stay here right up until christmas eve. throughout the time and period before the new year. >> why are we told, making a reservation for christmas eve and one on the day after to come back? and is there not an appreciation

for the jewish holidays, kwanzaa, the christmas holiday? >>neil: no, jut our future. but, folks we may not make it to the holidays because by our count, and this is my count, so i see no deal in place in two days this may not be a deal because it takes more days to mark a bill up, conference it out, and get a vote done to say nothing of the president ultimately signing it. are you worried? no fear, citizens, citizens are watching and now i have help. here is a co-have hero, our producer. good to see you, yesterday, my good friend. you are the robin of finance. >>guest: as long as i don't have to wear tights.

>>neil: why is it crucial that a deal get constructed in the next couple of days. explain the whole process. >>guest: the key is getting a bill so they can startup the operations. it will be tough to tell it to the democrats and republicans in the house of representatives but it takes a while to write the bill. they will go through a menu option, a cafeteria set of options from the super committee and the simpson-bowles report and some of those things and take the entitlement reforms and tax proposals but if it takes a while to put it in to the legislative language, they then have to get a score. they go to the congressional budget office and say, can you evaluate what the price tag of this is. that takes a while. the house of representatives has what they sometimes call a three day rule, actually a 24 hour and 2 second rule if they file the text of the legislation tonight they could vote on it the day after tomorrow. that is how it works in the

house of representatives. you are going to have members of congress, republicans and democrats who will want do sit down and read every bit of this bill so that gets us to the middle of the next week. >>neil: they didn't do that with the health care, but --. >>guest: it took a long-term but the republicans ran on saying, look, we will have time to read the bills and some members want to make sure they do that. >>neil: so, the next couple of days to get the deal, or we might run out of time to get a deal. right? >>guest: that is what we were hearing from house majority leader today saying we will keep people here through christmas. sometimes this is tactic. i talk about the stockholm syndrome keeping people here closer to the holiday, they are ticked off and they cannot be with their families and trim the tree, and they start to sympathize with their captors so, maybe if house of representatives speaker boehner can come up with an agreement

and he will lose a big part of the caucus, 60 to 80 members but he can put it together with in democrats that gets you to 218, enough to pass it in the house of representatives. >>neil: but his speakership could be in trouble. >>guest: remember, he did this consistently throughout this congress the he did it on the transportation bill passed over the summer the he did it on the debt ceiling last summer. he did it on keeping the government open. you had attrition in the republican conference. there is the possible, some people are saying, look, if speaker boehner does not agree to something, the republican conference that they lie, he is out. a group downtown is very upset at him and sorry groups, as well, but it take as lot to kick speaker boehner out. the best thing he has going for him, his leadership is four square behind him. that wasn't necessarily the case last year. there were tensions between the staff with the majority leader and he is now on board, and the whip is on board, and, more

importantly, paul ryan, is on board and he is part of the meet ing. >>neil: thank you very much. our work is not done, but we will be there to help the country out. thank you, chad. in the meantime, santa, santa, santa is getting into the spending act. say it ain't. >> we have a special guest would needs absolutely no introduction. i would like everyone to welcome santa. [ applause ] twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio.

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tomato, obviously. haha. there's more than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! [ male announcer ] taste it and describe the indescribable. could've had a v8. >>neil: always wondered why the suit was red, santa is a

spender. >> the tax cuts for 98 percent of american families now. and avoid the tell budget cuts that will harm so many children and their families across this nation. >>neil: you are not santa. actually using santa to sell your pitch for more spending, to the senator from the fine state of north dakota, senator thune. this whole santa thing, he is now entered the fray for more spending. what do you say? >>guest: well, we agreed we ought to citizen the rate for not jut the 98 percent he is talking about but for all americans, no one ought to see their taxes go up this holiday season and this person is a bad santa if you think about the almost million small businesses and all the people would work for them who are going do see the taxes go up and that seems to be more like a big lump of

coal. we believe we ought to extend the tax rates for everyone, and you should not raise taxes in the middle of a weak economy particularly on the small businesses who are creating the jobs for people in this country. >>neil: but it looks like that is how it is going, senator, and, at least some deal put together by speaker boehner will include revenues, $800 million worth. is that your way of saying that matter how you get the revenues you are not signing on? >>guest: i don't believe the problem is a taxing problem or a revenue problem it is a spending problem. we know that the president has made promises to the constituency about raising taxes and that is where he is drawing the line in the sand. republicans have said we are willing to enter into discussion but it has to be accompanied by the changes in our programs, reforms to our programs that are driving federal spending in the outyears. we cannot fix the fiscal

problems absent taking on entitlement programs, reforming the programs, saving social security and medicare and doing that if we don't deal with that aspect with the spending side of it. we have not touched the problem. >>neil: you want to see concessions on the spending before you even address the revenues because the criticism from the colleagues is they have not seen that, and we will talk to a democrat shortly, and that is where you are stalled. >>guest: absolutely. if you did energy the president wants it do raise taxes on income and on dividends and capital gains which is harmful to the economy, you only generate next year $68 billion which funds the government for less than a week. what do you do the other 51 weeks of the year? you have a weak sluggish stagnant economy that is growing more slowly than two years ago when the president we cannot raise taxes and at that time growth was stronger than it is today and now he seems to have

the obsession with raising taxes and especially raising taxes on small business. republicans believe spending has to be in the equation. can you not solve what airlines this country and what is going to help our long term fiscal solvency unless you deal with spending and entitlement reform. that is why we believe that has to be part of the solution. >>neil: thank you, senator. hope you are nut there through christmas. >> the president says he is prepareed to do some tough cuts. but what in congressman, what are you open to cutting? >>guest: thank you for having me, neil. we have seen the cuts and the president proposed and we voted for $1.5 trillion in cuts during

the budget and control act last year. we have done that. so --. >>neil: you want to count it twice? >>guest: we don't want to count them twice. we are saying, to say we are not for cutting anything, that is not quite true. we have demonstrated that. >>neil: you have to do more than that, right? >>guest: yes, when are you going to demonstrate what you are putting on the table? no revenue went in the last time. now, you have to ask us to do another $1.5 trillion or whatever it is, but no revenue. that is not going to get it. what we have to do this time and put your revenue on the table. i think we are spending teach on the two wars. that is what contributed to the deficit. we spent too much on the big prescription drug program. that contributed to the deficit.

to say you have a spending problem, that could be, look what we are doing to spending and that is what got us in this mess. >>neil: there is a lot responding going on. what i am getting from you, congressman, if the republicans spell out how they are getting the revenues, and you want double, say they agree to go back to the clinton tax rates, what, then, would you offer in return? >>guest: well we have made it clear that we are willing to address the growth that is taking place in medicare. >>neil: saying and promising and doing it are another thing. would you cap the growth on medicare at no more than 2 percent a year as some republicans advice? >>guest: i am not ever going to be for increasing the retirement age. that is what they are putting on the table from 65 to 67. >>neil: but that is for many years out. >>guest: i know, but people are still working a coal mine

many years from new. there will be more people working in more coal mines and --. >>neil: so that is a nonstarter, a lot of nonstarters for you much >>guest: you can look whether we will further modify the issue we have been dealing with, with the growth looking whether we are going to start classifying jobs that people have in order to determine whether or not --. >>neil: sounds like you are so far apart but hope springs eternal.

>>neil: see it here because you won't see it anywhere else. when union members are violent the many stream media turns its cheek. what do you make of this? >>reporter: it is the old

story. at time of the congresswoman gabrielle giffords shooting, the problem was metaphor was dangerous, if you say you like sarah palin and this particular congressional district is in the crosshairs, did you know meanting violence and now we have actualcy lens and it is not reported on those talking about the use of metaphor at the time of the gabrielle giffords thing. absolutely disgraceful. but entirely predictable. >>neil: in the case of this dust up with the fox contributor, he must have done something to provoke it. i imagine the same is said of rape victims. there is a double standard to the congress of the story. if you are going to be tough on one side, and you are going to rake the tea party over the coals, rake these guys over the coals, i am not surprised. i am wondering what message it

sends to folks at home because there are a lot of very savvy p.r. times in the union movement who do not want this image conveyed and i like to think it is a zipping minority but it shows the impression that some can behave like goons. >>guest: it is the opposite, neil, that a lot people are happy to give this impression. it is extremely valuable if people to understand your guys mean it and you may want to play along because, otherwise, things are going to get very unpleasant. that is the message these guys are sending in michigan. it is basically the domestic thing you are seeing in the arab spring, the protests against morsi in cairo, they were completely peaceful and the muslim brotherhood show up to protest and seven people difficult. there is always an advantage to the side that means it and to the side that is willing to

apply the muscle so i don't think the unions understand the people call the message. >>neil: what i am wondering, what happens now. obviously they are upset and taking it to the next level and feel emboldened after the president's re-election is they will not give up without a fight and it could be nasty. what do you see? >>guest: they are not. they understand, this is an amazing decision in michigan and if it goes this way across the country, it is very bad news. these guys will be at a tipping point and they don't want to go that way. you are seeing a glimpse of what the future is like as america gets broker and broker, that you will see people prepared to do all kinds of things out there on the street and in that sense it is what could be a lot worse in

two, three, four years, as america slides off the real fiscal cliff into the great abyss of bankruptcy that awaits. it is not going to be pretty. >>neil: but i am not worried, i know you have a christmas cd out, so, at least if we are going to slide down the abyss we could slid down the chimney first and listen to some great music. do you sing in this? >>guest: yes, i sing. i sing. that was a beautiful segue, they should teach that in broadcasting school. i do sing on the album with my pal jessica and a terrific orchestra and it and beautiful music to slide, to plug your ipod in as you go over the cliffally. >>neil: but you do not take christmas tunes and march them to conservative causes like silent night, nothing like that, right?

these are songs i actually like like "santa claus is coming to town." we do them in special arrangements, mine holds up against any others. if we are going to sing in the abyss of debt, it is important to have the bottom dropping out the conservative pundits since 2006 so this album is to put my kids through college. >>neil: but those folks can't sing and you can sing. look forward to it, and look failure to listening to it. >>guest: merry christmas to you. >>imus: is she sitting on your lap in what is going on there? okays okay, okay,

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[ woman ] we knew it was gonna be bad, but never like this.

the red cross was down here all the time. [ man ] they've given us a lot of heart. in times of need, they're there. ♪ [ kerry ] my dad was watching his house burn. he turned around, and all of a sudden, therwas this guy standing there from the red cross. at a point where i had just lost everything, the idea that there was someone there... that's an amazing thing. ♪ >>neil: he stormed a crowded mall with holiday shoppers shooting at anyone in sight and now we foe his name. now to happy valley mall. >>guest: so tragic and so many questions unanswered. the shooter is 22-year-old jacob tyler problems. he had no criminal record. the only contact he ever had

with cops before this was as a crime victim. he bounced around several high schools before graduating in 2008. he attended a community college. police went to his house and searched it and they are not talking about what they got or what the motive may have been. the semi-automatic rifle used was stolen from someone he knew. he was wearing a special load bearing vest that allowed him to carry fully loaded magazine clips. it was not a bullet roof vest as first reported. police say it was not terrorism. now, dozens of shots fires, possibly up to two dozen or three dozen, there would have been many more who died if not for the gun jamming, mall and police personnel practiced this exact thing last year with the first police on scene one minute after the calls.

and those who could, ran away from the gunfire. those who could not went to lockdown in stores hiding in place. still, two people were murdered and the 45-year-old, a husband and father of two who owned a business in the mall. and a 54-year-old woman. the owner was grateful for how everyone reacted. he also said that it was the right thing to do to keep the mall closed and the police are going through it and looking for whatever evidence they can gear. it could be able to re-open tomorrow. two weeks, exactly, before christmas, the shooting took place. >>neil: thank you. so, what would you do if you were in a similar situation, shopping, you hear gunshots and my guest says what you decide in that split second could save your life. our guest provides security at malls. >>guest: if you are not armed or trained, as a former law enforcement or military to help

the situation, cover. cover. get behind cover. get behind a pole, a garbage can, where the bullets can fought hit you. that is first. make yourself invisible, invisible. if the shooting is occurring in a far away situation, it is unfolding and approaching, run in the opposite direction. if it is unfolding in your area, cover, cover, cover. >>neil: a lot of the cases, these folks were surprised when it first started as the theater in colorado. just seemed out of place and weird. avoid the sound of gunfire and then what, get the heck out of this? >>guest: get out of there. hit the floor. hide behind a pole. >>neil: what if the guy is next to you. >>guest: that is a tough one. that is a split second decision, that is where heroes are made.

>>neil: what about the mall cops, you are for remain aing them, try? >>guest: that is the irony. the security guard at the mall is ineffective. the situation like this with an active shooter, in i civilian is more effective than the guard. he is only this to observe, deter, and report. you cannot use deadly force. you have to have armed guards if every scenario today. you must. not just power plans or banks, there are shootings at theaters, at churches, at commercial properties, at malls. tell the parents of the 15 year old with a bullet that it is potential liability. arm them. get the experience. get the training. if someone was armed as macy's they could have stopped him in his tracks when he marched through with the rifle and vest and mask and sent him to his maker. >>neil: a lot of the guys kill themselves. >>guest: i see that. do you never they pick venues

there is never an armed guard? they don't pick am more car truck delivery places or power laps where there are guys with rifles, but malls with unarmed guard contract services. they are no more helpful in that active situation than anyone, than a nun. >>neil: what is going on? we know the big ones, column -- columbine. what is going on? >>guest: it could be tied to the economy, there are no jobs but if you go back before 2008 there are numerous mall shooting, numerous theater shootings, shootings at commercial buildings, at playgrounds, in churches. people sled. they have access to help withs. we have to protect them. not just observe and report. >>neil: thank you very much. do any of you remember this?

>> we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. >>neil: something tells me 16 democratic senators wish they ready it before they passed it because they are not liking what they signed. .. share "not even close."

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>>neil: can we back off having them pay for the treats that we are giving them? that is what 16 senators who voted for the health care law now want to change. they want a delay in the medical device tax they themselves voted for as part of the law. that device tax hits john 1, and john stossel hits back at the

hypocrisy, it is weird. >>guest: it is disgusting. they are right. it is a terrible tax. 2 percent tax, on medical devices. we want the artificial hips and shoulders and heart pumps. >> clearly passed along. this is a tax on their sales. this puts them out of business, if they have a thin margin but they didn't read it bill and they vote for it. the other evil part, this is how big government law making works, they pass this bill and they ask for an ex-exception for this person. there are already more than 1,000 waves on obamacare, mostly the teachers union and the friends of the democrats. one month, 20 percent of the exemptions went to expensive hotels and restaurants and nancy pelosi's district is where it occurred. >>neil: well someone has to push forward to pay the bills. >>guest: but only a few

percent of the people get a pass but it increases new industry of parasite lobbyists and the politicians like it because if you give me money i would be more likely to honor your request here. they get the goodies upfront from the program and then the cost, like we are discovering, next year, the medicare surtax and invest president-related taxes, and what have you, and that is when the pile ons start, they hit you with the goodies, covering for pre-existing conditions and all and we are supposed to be surprised when the bill comes due and now we want did delay the bill as if we are not compounding the cost. >>guest: and the public generally goes along because most people believe we get free stuff. >>neil: we cannot be that stupid. >>guest: i used to think that but now i think we are. people want something for nothing. greece where they are rioting

because they can no longer retire at age 40 or whatever it is. once people get free something, they feel entitled. and they want free everything. >>neil: john stossel, great show, and he has a studio and student audience and they will wait outside here for hours. hours. we tried to get some people coming to a book signing -- nothing. in the meantime, it is not quite time for my annual holiday shopping tips for men or for women but it is time for my single most important thing you can do if life to assure a great life tip for everyone. after this. she keeps you guessing.

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you won't take our future. aids affects us all. even babies. chevron is working to stop mother-to-child transmission. our employees and their families are part of the fight. and we're winning. at chevron nigeria, we haven't had a reported case in 12ears. aids is strong. aids is strong. but we are stronger. and aids... ♪ aids is going to lose. aids is going to lose. ♪ >> neil: do as you say, say as you do. i really think that is the essence of getting ahead in life.

i do. doing what you say you are going to do in life. it sounds simple. but it must be awfully hard, but i don't know about you i see so few doing it. contractor says he will come by at 2:00 doesn't come till 4:00, if shows up at all. the salesman says he will get right back to you. never does. manager leaving you wondering and hanging. cable company insists it wants your feedback but if you feed it to them they don't get back. the guy that sold the lemon and is hiding. you get my point. we live if a day and age that talk is cheap. delivering on talk is cheaper. my now departed irish mom used to say remember, half the challenge in life is showing up. my much more frank italian dad would add the other half is not screwing up. both were right. looking at service in our country today, something is wrong. i can't prove it, but i am pretty sure this is how rome

looked in the final days. angry roman choppers waiting for days for good service. never came. rome gone. lesson you think learned. not so. we can avoid their fate. if we honor those who don't repeat their sins. namely, recognizing those who don't sin. the guy who does get back, the salesman who does check up, the cable company that does what it says and comes out when it promises. scratch that. i think a lot of cable companies are prewired not to gave rat's you know what to customers. even back to rome. i'm told the cable repairman never came out and the technician chariot to fix anything. unless you were fixing to wait a long time. only difference back then and now is then they didn't compound the service with ads touting their great service. neb rome's final days the thieves had some standards alas. maybe because of lousy service, i'm grateful for any service. car salesman who calls to see if i like the car he sold me.

or the doctor who marks me down for a 10:00 a.m. appointment. guess what? sees me at 10:00 a.m. for that appointment. simple stuff. but important stuff. honoring your word and keeping your commitment. i know a great producer like that. the busiest person in the room by far. yet she happily and seamlessly takes on every task, every time, gets it done. not with an attitude like oh, no. more like gung-ho. my mom and dad were right on this. get the little things right and you will soon be counted on to get the big things right as well. because you are reliable. you show people you care. it's not something you promised. it's something you are. take it from the romans before they were barbarian at the gate, i tell you there were angry customers stewing on